just saw a video on the forum, of a dutch Shepperd litter, they looked great, loved everything about them
so the new fashion in ppd's seems to be the knpv style dog, (dutch mal or shep), and i bought into this and was looking into getting a dutch dog, went to a training session that had a dutch dog and saw a muzzled dutch Shepperd exhibit the scariest handler aggression i have ever seen and was repeatedly strung up to mitigate it (to no avail), this turned me off the idea(im sure this is not a trait of the breed) but i know that these dogs have the highest drives and for what i need just to much dog for me
but as i was watching the aforementioned vid, depicting the very nice high drive puppies, i wondered if to much drive may be a negative, wondering what you all think
thanks
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In life the firmest friend,
The first to welcome, foremost to defend,
Whose honest heart is still his master's own
Who labors, fights, lives, breathes for him alone.
-Lord Byron
For my rottweiler to "work" he doesn't need to be encouraged, just released with a word, strong drive. He'll hunt people if developed in that direction, but I aim for practical application, and don't feel like setting up dummies in bite suits for him to search and bite since that will never be required of him in real life. Naturally he's inclined to hunt animals. Since I didn't raise him and he was probably not socialized and put under control around other domestic animals, this aggression is most often directed at other dogs. It was very hard to bring him under control at 4 years of age and he's still not fully reliable around other dogs. I can only achieve breaking him with an electric collar and I was always reluctant to do it for some reason.
This dog lives for very few things; food, sex, and killing animals, that's it. Killing animals is probably what he likes the most at any given moment. I can't have him killing stuff because I simply don't live in an area where there's small game. We do have lots of feral hogs in S Florida and I like the idea of hog hunting, but I'm afraid he'll get killed. So I live with the knowledge that I can't give this animal the outlet that he needs. I know what I get like when I can't do what I like to do, so I'm sorry for him most of the time. The problem is that in someone elses hands less experienced than me he'd kill another dog and then be put down himself.
If my description up to now didn't put an image in your head of what it's like to deal with this dog, think that every time I step out with the dog I'm watchful. If the ears go up and the dog gets that focused look, I have to be ready to stop him. Sometimes I don't catch it in time and he'll start this funny gallop in some direction, when I see this I'm conditioned to scream "aaaaaout" even if I have no idea what he was going after. He will now stop. If I wouldn't stop him and his target was one that he knew wouldn't be able to escape, like another dog on a leash, he'd continue with that loose gallop and in a friendly demeanor like a dog bringing your slippers would grab hold of the other dog like it was a rabbit.
Why the story? Now maybe this gives you an idea of what it's like to live with a real dangerous high drive dog. With a dog that has really strong drive it's very difficult to shut it down. By comparison this video of the pups biting on the girl's clothing, and other videos of pups being encouraged to demonstrate this kind of drive, I think the people are really developing the pups in this direction. Developing is the opposite of needing to always suppress the dog. I don't think these dogs have drive that's hard to deal with if raised properly from pups. It's when the handlers don't stop in time and/or don't have the experience, they get dogs that are out of control. Bottom line if you don't want those dutch shepherds exhibiting that kind of behavior, I don't think it would be too hard to discourage when pups. Of course there can always appear a dominant MOFO that will challenge even an experienced handler, but I don't think this trait is necessarily connected with high drive.
If you dont want a handler aggressive dog get another breed, mals are pretty quick to turn around and nail you after a correction they dont agree with. I think it has more to do with temperment then amount of drive.
Dan,
Sounds like you Rott acts more like a bulldog, I know they feeling of dealing with strong dog on dog aggression everyday it sux...
Im with Matt. If they think you are unfair and you do not have a realy good bond with them they will nail you.
I do think this is a NICE thing. Thos dogs nead a experients handlar, If not they will bite you ore somone near you when you fuck up. Hopfully this will keep yahoos away from thos 2 wunderfull breeds.
Get a molloso breed. Easy to handel, Scary looking, Not mutsh drive. What more do you nead as a PPDog
Get a molloso breed. Easy to handel, Scary looking, Not mutsh drive. What more do you nead as a PPDog
It's not as simple as that for someone who's experienced enough to know the benefits of having some level of drive. There is a balance between hunting drive, defensive drive, trainability, and calmness. Often the mollosers lack hunting drive which in turn negatively affects trainability. A good rott has the right balance for my preference.
With a well bred bandog you can still get a LOT of drive without the handler aggression, usually handler aggression comes with highly rank driven dogs. If I had a large, aggressive and driven dog, who turned around to bite me, I'd shoot it. My dogs are family dogs I can't have a dog who thinks he can choose when I'm right about a correction, no dog of mine should even consider biting me or my family. Handler aggression doesn't come from defense, prey, or fight drive, that's why those drives are the ones I stick to in my program, I look for and select away from rank drive to avoid all those problems in the first place. I like a sensitive dog who's easy to correct, since I'm not heavy handed over correction isn't a problem. If I did over correct one of my dogs they would lay down and submit, IMO that's the proper response from a dog to his master. Look at it like this, you get a Protection dog for the same reason you get a gun, to make you and your family safer. Would anyone buy a home defense gun that would decide to shoot you if you did something it didn't like? If not then why would you buy a dog that would bite you for the same reason. A Protection dog should add safety to your family not danger.
As for the question of too much drive IMO the only down side to a dog with a lot of drive is you have to keep a constant eye on them or keep them contained at all times, unless you live far away from anyone. I'm glad I live in the country I don't have to deal with people setting my dogs off accidentally. That's not even a big problem if you only have one dog. It's very hard to get a large group highly driven dogs under control once they've decided to kill the neighbors cat, or the neighbor. Most people don't really need a driven dog they just need a barker, and it's a lot less trouble. I just like the idea of having a dog who'd walk through fire with me and fight to protect my family.
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Midgard Kennels - Protection bred American Bandog Mastiffs
can a ppd have to much drive
, I know they feeling of dealing with strong dog on dog aggression everyday it sux...
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